Best Blind Motor Options for Loxone

[esurt]

Hi,

I am about to order 20 windows with external blinds (Roma Raffstore CDL) and need to choose the best blind motors to work with Loxone. I want then to be:
i) as quiet as possible.
ii) integrate well with loxone
iii) not need to access the blind box in the future if adjustment is required.

There are a number of things to choose it seems.:

1) Brand. It seems Geiger and Elero are available, but I don't know which is best. Geiger have noise (db) figures of 34dB, but I can't find any values for the Elero JA Soft so can't compare.

2) Wired or Wireless. If I wanted to use wireless then the "Geiger GJ56 Air" would probably be a good option, but I am thinking that wired is best for a new build.

3) Mechanical or Electronic. It seems electronic would be best, as i) they can be adjusted without acessing the motor ii) they have auto-stop iii) slat adjustment on some is done at a slower speed and therefore more precise (e.g. Elero JA Comfort). But, I don't know if this two-speed approach would work well with Loxone.

3) Loxone controlled vs. SMI/KNX. It seems like best/simplest solution is probably for Loxone to control height and slat tilt based on times, rather than a more expensive SMI/KNX based motors.

Thoughts? What brand and motor type do others uses?

Thanks,
Daniel

[Gast]

Hi,

Ive got the same problem like you. I had to decide what type of blind motor take to my house. Ive chosen wired Elero Ja witch Mechanical Stop. Since 6 months I've used it and everything is OK. I use automatic shading and precision of slats adjusting is quite good. Mechanical or Electronic stop? - I have never changed it since mounting, so i think it isn't the most important thing

[esurt]

Hi,

Ive got the same problem like you. I had to decide what type of blind motor take to my house. Ive chosen wired Elero Ja witch Mechanical Stop. Since 6 months I've used it and everything is OK. I use automatic shading and precision of slats adjusting is quite good. Mechanical or Electronic stop? - I have never changed it since mounting, so i think it isn't the most important thing

This is exactly the motor that Gaulhofer will supply by default. I was trying to work out if to ask for an upgrade or not. I'm farily convinced from reading on this forum that SMI/KNX interfaces adds no value, but was trying to work out if there was a quieter option, or if the electronic ones had any advantage.

Ca I ask you a couple of questions:
- How is the sound level of this motor model?
- How quick/slow is it to lift the blinds on a large patio door?

Thanks.

[Christian Fenzl]

About differences of eletronic / convential motors:

It is a list of things I researched, and I had experiences with. May not be complete, and possibly things are different dependent to the makers.

Advantages of electronic control

• Protected against parallel up/down control (as Loxone provides no electrical locking of up and down inputs).
• Most makers allow to connect two or more motors in parallel without additional relays or special controller
• Soft start, soft stop
• Because of Soft-start/soft-Stop the roller/bilnds may be more silent
• Possibly detection of barriers or frozen curtain
• Overload protection

Disadvantages of electronic control

• More expensive
• Programming of end positions possibly only programable with a control unit of the technician
• Soft start and soft stop will lead to inaccuracies of Automatic Blind block, as Loxone's timing configuration cannot handle soft-starts/stops

Non-electronic motors also may have Overload protection by a heat sensor for the motors.

Regards,
Christian

[esurt]

About differences of eletronic / convential motors:[*]Soft start and soft stop will lead to inaccuracies of Automatic Blind block, as Loxone's timing configuration cannot handle soft-starts/stops

Why is this? If a normal motor takes 2min to lower, and a soft start/stop takes 2:20min, then wouldn't you just configue 2:20min in Loxone rather than 2:00min (why would it matter if this was constrant speed or not constant)?

The same with slat adjustment, if the electronic motor takes 15 seconds to open/close slats rather than 5 seconds, then isn't this just a case of using 15s instead of 5s and in fact this adjustment will be more accurate?

Thanks,

[Christian Fenzl]

I have soft-start/stop roller motors, and target the following problem:
As the roller always softly starts, a requested move of e.g. 10% (of full runtime - Loxone calculates time) does not move 10%, but only 8% of the length. After e.g. 3 movements you have an error of 6%.
With blinds that do automatic adjustment and only are triggered for 0,2 secs, you may have a drift of 50% of Loxone "thinks" and where the blinds really are.

Another example of my rollers:
In Loxone I have configured shading position of the rollers to 90%.
If the rollers are open and I call the shading position, the roller gets closed but keep the light slots open.
If the rollers are fully closed, and I call the shading position, the roller opens so about the 20cm of the window get unshaded.
I 10 times measured full up and down time, everything correct. But soft-start and -stop creates that inaccurate run times, as it starts slower as you measure for a full run.

[esurt]

Ahh, I think I understand now. I assumed the soft start was only at top and bottom, based on this on Elero website "Langsamfahrt während der Lamellenwendung und vor den Endlagen". (https://www.elero.de/de/produkte/antriebe/ja-comfort/). I can certainly see how a soft start, on all movements, would be an issue if you don't only do full up/down movements though, given the cumulative effect of the soft start. This might not be an issue for Elero electronic motors.

Which motors do you have? Also any idea regarding the different brands Somfy/Geiger/Elero and which might be quietest?

(Your experience may actually be a reason to use SMI/KNX interface or Geiger Air, as in theory these should account for this)

Thanks,

[Christian Fenzl]

To be honest, I don’t know the motor makers, as blinds and shades were mounted and I was only interested in the kind of electrical connection.
I also have no comparison to other brands.

I also think, sound level is also depending of the roller box, and the curtains itself. My brothers Z-type shades do a metallic “bang” when they close as metal hits metal. This is much more annoying as the motor sound.

[Christian Fenzl]

Just looked for the offer, and rollers are Elero electronic.
Then tested, and you are right: Soft-Start and Soft-Stop only at the end position. It seems only to be a soft-stop at end positions, not a soft-start.
Nevertheless it moves different if I trigger shading position, depending if it was open or it was closed.

[esurt]

Just looked for the offer, and rollers are Elero electronic.
Then tested, and you are right: Soft-Start and Soft-Stop only at the end position. It seems only to be a soft-stop at end positions, not a soft-start.
Nevertheless it moves different if I trigger shading position, depending if it was open or it was closed.

This still seems strange. My guess is that one of your values in Loxone is very close, but not quite right. Did you set all three different values accurately: up time, down time, slat opening time?

[Christian Fenzl]

I think the times are quite ok.
Yesterday I tried a little bit and reduced times to be lower than real. It is better but still not correct.

Slat opening time is not relevant for rollers, it is used as opening percentage for shading (0-1).