Basic Loxone questions for my upcoming house

[Gast]

Hello all,

for what I read in this forum these may be quite simple questions but it would help me a lot any help you could provide.

A first question

My main goal for Loxone control in my new house is to manage House Climate. For that, I will have Griesser blinds and Heat/Cold splits. I do not plan to connect to Loxone the Zehnder Q350 system as I think it will just work steady 24/7...

To move the blinds up and down, I will put a Loxone Touch for every two blinds. The thing here is that I would like to make use of the Touch central button that can turn on/off lights and here is when my first doubt comes:

• If I understood correctly, Loxone Touch is connected via Wire cable.
  • Does it mean it can only activate lights that are Loxone made? (Wire connected)
  • Any way to turn on/off normal LED lights connected with standard electric wiring?
  • The reason I ask is that is that I would like to be able to turn on/off a light not only from the Loxone Touch but from other standard switches scattered accross, let's say, the living room.

A second question

In order to control the Cool/Heat Mitsubishi Splts system, I am told that I need to install a device like this one in each split so it can talk with Loxone. They are quite pricey and I was wondering:

• Is this the only way? Isnt there a simples (cheaper) solution?
• I read in Loxone's website about RS485 Extension. I do not fully understand it but would that be a possible replacement for the Intesis pricey controller?
• Any other recommendation will aslo be welcomed.

That is it. Thanks to anybody who coudl provide any feedback.

Regards
Juan

[rosco-007]

Hello Juan,

I can see that you don't have that much Loxone experience to make the thinks you questioned working. But let me explain you a little.

1. There are 3 ways to connect a Touch. Wireless (AIR), TREE and with NANO (AIR). The way you connect them, doesn"t matter and has no relationship how you want to control your lights. There are several way's to control your lights.
2. What you want isn"t cheap. The best way is to use a modbus extension. But your airco should be able to connect with this. Further, you need a lot of experience with programming. An other way is with a IR connection from Loxone.

Good luck

Ronald

[Iksi]

When you would like to switch the lights with an loxone touch you will have to connect the light to any digital output of loxone.
Ther are several types of it. The switch itself is only connected to the loxone system. It does not have any contacts to switch a light or anything else.
Even for the blinds you will need some additional outputs. You can't connect them to the switch...

To connect Tha climates you will need both, one of the Modbus RS485 modules for each climate and the loxone RS485 Extension. The modules in the climates would then be connected to the Extension...

Of course there are other ways. I have one Esp8266 with an IR Diode in each Climate installed. With them I can control the Climates as well. But it is an diy thing. Negative aspects are of course that it is connected with wireless Lan, this is not as stable as an cable. And the control of the climate is only nby IR Signals without any Feedback. So you don't know what's the status of the climate.

[Gast]

Hello Juan,

I can see that you don't have that much Loxone experience to make the thinks you questioned working. But let me explain you a little.

1. There are 3 ways to connect a Touch. Wireless (AIR), TREE and with NANO (AIR). The way you connect them, doesn"t matter and has no relationship how you want to control your lights. There are several way's to control your lights.
2. What you want isn"t cheap. The best way is to use a modbus extension. But your airco should be able to connect with this. Further, you need a lot of experience with programming. An other way is with a IR connection from Loxone.

Good luck

Ronald

Thank you Ronald.

About 1, if I do it, I will connect them by TREE. My question tough trying to ask in a different way, if I do connect it with TREE, I understand I will not be able to turn it on/off with a "classic" electric switch.

About 2, Thanks. I will not do the programming myself but the company who will install it but I wanted to better understand what I would be buying.

Juan

[Gast]

When you would like to switch the lights with an loxone touch you will have to connect the light to any digital output of loxone.
Ther are several types of it. The switch itself is only connected to the loxone system. It does not have any contacts to switch a light or anything else.
Even for the blinds you will need some additional outputs. You can't connect them to the switch...

To connect Tha climates you will need both, one of the Modbus RS485 modules for each climate and the loxone RS485 Extension. The modules in the climates would then be connected to the Extension...

Of course there are other ways. I have one Esp8266 with an IR Diode in each Climate installed. With them I can control the Climates as well. But it is an diy thing. Negative aspects are of course that it is connected with wireless Lan, this is not as stable as an cable. And the control of the climate is only nby IR Signals without any Feedback. So you don't know what's the status of the climate.

Thanks Iksi,

I will be having a Loxone partner installing it but I wanted to do my homework prior to know what I am paying for. I think Clima/Blinds is a nice feature to have in the house. Probably not worth then including Loxone lighting as I do not see so much value on it unless you do all the house like this and that will not be within my budget.

Juan

[TomekWaw]

1. You most probably don't need a Touch every two blinds. This is hardly a smart home idea. You need a Touch every room and it controls all blinds in that room. But you rarely need to control them manually, as Loxone itself controls them perfectly for you. In case you'd need to set blinds to different positions (why would you?), you may always do it from your smarthone or tablet. The same applies to lighting. You don't need as many wall switches every room as number of lamps (or a switch for every two lamps). You just need one Touch that takes control of room lighting (same Touch that controls blinds, btw). Sure you may use classic monostable switches instead of Touch, but bear in mind they usually provide limited number of pulses from each switch frame. And having multiple-switch frames is hardly a smart home idea to me.

2. If you've chosen Mitsubishi units and they not provide Modbus interface, just go Modbus with Intesis. You need Intesis box for every AC unit and a single Loxone Modbus Extension as Modbus master/controller that talks back to Loxone Miniserver. I wouldn't go RS485 as its inferior to Modbus and definitely not the IR way as in AC control it's a mess and also provides no feedback. Integration with AC Unit might be cheaper if you've chosen Dakin units with BRP0xxxx optional or included Wifi module. To my knowledge these are the only popular AC products on the market you may relatively easily control with local http calls. By saying relatively easy I mean not as easy as with Modbus. There is always a quid pro quo rule. You might end paying less for the hardware and more for the integration services.

[Christian Fenzl]

To clarify 1. as I think you haven’t got the concept:

There are inputs (like switches) and there are are outputs (like relays for blinds).

All inputs (no matter if classical inputs on Extensions, Tree inputs like Touch, Air inputs, 1-Wire inputs like temperatures, Modbus,...) are sent to the Miniserver.

On the other side are all outputs (again, no matter if classical outputs of Extensions, Tree or Air relays, DMX lightning control, Modbus,...) that are controlled by the Miniserver.

In the Miniserver program, YOU define in your Loxone Config how to combine inputs to outputs. For example, if a Tree Touch Input 1 is pressed, turn on light on DMX channel 5. Or, if Digital Input 1 of Miniserver (a classical switch you’ve connected to a Miniserver input) is pressed, send something to Modbus address xxx (eg your air condition).
It is your task in Loxone Config, to combine all the inputs to the outputs, with logic blocks provided by Loxone (like Intelligent Room Controller, or a Lightning block).

[Gast]

1. You most probably don't need a Touch every two blinds. This is hardly a smart home idea. You need a Touch every room and it controls all blinds in that room. But you rarely need to control them manually, as Loxone itself controls them perfectly for you. In case you'd need to set blinds to different positions (why would you?), you may always do it from your smarthone or tablet. The same applies to lighting. You don't need as many wall switches every room as number of lamps (or a switch for every two lamps). You just need one Touch that takes control of room lighting (same Touch that controls blinds, btw). Sure you may use classic monostable switches instead of Touch, but bear in mind they usually provide limited number of pulses from each switch frame. And having multiple-switch frames is hardly a smart home idea to me.

2. If you've chosen Mitsubishi units and they not provide Modbus interface, just go Modbus with Intesis. You need Intesis box for every AC unit and a single Loxone Modbus Extension as Modbus master/controller that talks back to Loxone Miniserver. I wouldn't go RS485 as its inferior to Modbus and definitely not the IR way as in AC control it's a mess and also provides no feedback. Integration with AC Unit might be cheaper if you've chosen Dakin units with BRP0xxxx optional or included Wifi module. To my knowledge these are the only popular AC products on the market you may relatively easily control with local http calls. By saying relatively easy I mean not as easy as with Modbus. There is always a quid pro quo rule. You might end paying less for the hardware and more for the integration services.

Thanks for your feedback!

the first point you made me think...indeed a Smart Home should be something different than 2 blinds - 1 Touch. I like what you propose. It suddenly makes sense.

For AC, I just may go ahead and use Mitsubishi and everything else required.

For lighting, I will lookf for some time during the weekend to ask you guys something with a drawing because my brain still does not get it fully.

Cheers.

[Gast]

To clarify 1. as I think you haven’t got the concept:

There are inputs (like switches) and there are are outputs (like relays for blinds).

All inputs (no matter if classical inputs on Extensions, Tree inputs like Touch, Air inputs, 1-Wire inputs like temperatures, Modbus,...) are sent to the Miniserver.

On the other side are all outputs (again, no matter if classical outputs of Extensions, Tree or Air relays, DMX lightning control, Modbus,...) that are controlled by the Miniserver.

In the Miniserver program, YOU define in your Loxone Config how to combine inputs to outputs. For example, if a Tree Touch Input 1 is pressed, turn on light on DMX channel 5. Or, if Digital Input 1 of Miniserver (a classical switch you’ve connected to a Miniserver input) is pressed, send something to Modbus address xxx (eg your air condition).
It is your task in Loxone Config, to combine all the inputs to the outputs, with logic blocks provided by Loxone (like Intelligent Room Controller, or a Lightning block).

Thanks!

Yes, I think I struggle mostly with the lighting part of it...maybe I want to mix the loxone world with the 2classic" electric lighting world and this is not how it works.

I will try to be more specific over the weekend to see if I can get your feedback.

[Gast]

Hello again,

I spent some time today thinking on the overall set up and incorporating your feedback. I decided to have a system to control Clima (controling all 11 blinds I will have and the Mitsubishi AC units) and I would like to turn on/off a 3Kw resistance in the ACS water diposit if the Photovoltaic system is producing and energy is not needed in the house. I will not have any lighting control.

1. For the blinds control I will still install 3 or 4 Touch swithces not just for convenience on the way in/out of the garden but also becuase I understand that the incorporated Temp/Humidity sensors can be used for the Clima control instead of having dedicated Temp-Humidity sensors added. Is that correct?
2. The 3kW resistance will be in a Daikin Altherma hhp300av.
   • The plan is to use a Temperature Sensor 1-Wire.
   • What else would I need to control the 3kW resistance?
     • A Modbus Electricty metter (single phase) to know when electricity is available?
     • What is actually needed to turn on the 3kW resistance?
     • A final question. The Temperature sensor needs of course a 1-Wire Extension. Is this the only way to have a Temp Sensor? Is there no Temp sensor that can connect directly to the Miniserver? (maybe a stupid question)

Your feedback and comments are very welcomed

Thanks

[Gast]

You can try a smart home system using a wireless network in the form of Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. A lot depends on the capabilities of your devices and their characteristics. If it's not difficult for you, put photos of pages or stickers on the device. When I was choosing an apartment with Mortgage Broker London, the presence of a smart home system was an important criterion for me, as I understood that its installation would take some more time. If you realize that you will not be able to cope with this task, it is better to hire a specialist. You may incorrectly configure the communication between devices, and then it will not work holistically.