What is the best way to dim lights? Can I use the 1-10V output?

[Gast]

Hi everyone!

After some research, this is still something that is not clear to me and I would love it if someone could explain it to me.
I'm planning on buying a Loxone mini server with the necessary extensions.

What are the options I have to dim my lights?
As far as I know, you have 3 options:

- Loxone Dimmer Extension: http://shop.loxone.com/enuk/dimmer-extension.html
The most obvious option. But at €448 I'm finding this an expensive option in order to have only 4 dimmable outputs.

- DMX Extension: http://shop.loxone.com/enuk/dmx-extension.html
I understand that you can only use this with DMX devices?
What is DMX? Is it something you can use in your house to dim lights?
Can I make normal lights, DMX compatible?

- The standard 1-10V output
Can I, for example, connect 12V LED lights directly to this output in order to dim them?
Or do I need to use a certain type of convertor?
Is this the device I would need? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-10...434827857.html
This one has more channels. Can I use that in combination with loxone? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-10...453537261.html

I also read something about PWM. How does PWM work? And why to some PWM devices have multiple channels? Can I use one 1-10V output with a multiple channel PWM devices in order to dim multiple light groups?


If none of this makes sense, please provide me with the best way to switch off / dim lights.


Thanks!

[Jan W.]

The Loxone Dimmer Extension is used for lights that need 230V AC. Those lights/spots should have a note "dimmable" to work with this kind of dimmer (with any dimmer). I have this one for around 20 LED spots with a GU10 socket in my living room and a lamp above the table of our dining area (all 230V AC). You are right, that this kind of dimmer is not cheap, but it works with many 230V lamps that you find in regular shops.

DMX Extension: I'm also using this one. DMX is a bus system that needs three wires (e.g. a CAT-5/6/7 cable) that runs from the DMX extension to the DMX dimmer. These DMX dimmers are typically available with 3 or 4 channels and are best for LED stripes that need 12 or 24V DC. Typically PWM is used to dim LED stripes. PWM works like a very fast switch and turns the LEDs on an off. Dimming works by either having shorter or longer on and off periods. All LED strips with 12 or 24V DC that I know are compatible with this kind of dimming.

With 3 channels you can either connect one LED stripe with RGB colour or 3 LED stripes with just white colour. For a LED stripe with RGBW colour, you need 4 channels. DMX dimmers are much cheaper for a single channel compared to the Loxone Dimmer Extension, but most of these dimmers only work with 12 or 24V. You'll even find DMX dimmers that work with 230V. Some users have deployed the power supply for 24V and the DMX dimmers at the central site and run thick wires (e.g. 5x1,5mm NYM) across their home to the LED stripes, some prefer to have the dimmer close to the LED stripes.

Some LEDs don't need a constant voltage like 12 or 24 V DC (or 230V AC), but a constant current like 350 or 700mA. Those LEDs (e.g. high power LEDs or panels) can be very bright, but you need to have more skills to find the right combination: LED/panel, power supply, dimmer, some of them need soldering and a proper heatsink. You'll also find DMX dimmers for this kind of LEDs (constant current).

You may also use 0-10V (or 1-10V) analogue outputs to dim LED stripes, but you can't connect them directly. The analogue output of the miniserver or an extension only allows 20mA, so it is used to control a dimmer that works with 0-10V. If you run the 0-10V wire across you home the voltage may change slightly and therefore the brightness of the light that is connected to the dimmer using this an input. I would not worry too much about it, but DMX is a bus system, so it transmits the information in binary format and is more robust to interference.

The first URL that you've posted points to a dimmer that needs 1-10V to control the brightness, but it is used for LEDs that needs a constant current of 350mA, 500mA or 700mA per channel (selectable by 3 dip switches). The second URL points to one that can be used for LED stripes (constant current).

You don't have that many analogue outputs on the miniserver or extensions, so it may be more scalable to use DMX instead. At the end it depends on the number of analogue outputs that are available/free and the number of LED stripes / channels that like to have. The price for a dimmer that needs 0-10V are almost the same as one that works with DMX. If you plan to install a couple of LED stripes, especially RGB or RGBW (I've counted more that 20 channels in my home), then the additional price for the DMX extension doesn't make a real difference.

If you buy on Aliexpress, I would look for a CE sign, clear descriptions and a good quality. I have bought some items there and was quite happy with the quality.

Jan

[Gast]

Thank you so much for taking the time for such an in depth explanation!

I'm only interested in dimming LEDs (don't care much for RGB)
So in my case if I use this DMX decoder I have 24 lights I can control?
This would be a great solution to save some outputs on the Loxone Miniserver or the Loxone Extension!

https://www.amazon.de/24-Kanal-DMX512-Controller-Decoder-Dimmer-LightingProject/dp/B00Q1N1NVK

(If only they would sell to Belgium.. )

With this solution I can control 12V or 24V LEDs if i'm correct?
I don't need to connect this to LED drivers?
Are there also good DIN mountable solutions? Or are there other solutions you would recommend?


I would prefer to install everything in a central place (next to the miniserver) and run a 3x 1.5 cable to each light-group to make it more flexible for the future.

[Jan W.]

So in my case if I use this DMX decoder I have 24 lights I can control?

Yes, that's correct.

With this solution I can control 12V or 24V LEDs if i'm correct?

Yes. It looks that the input (and therefore the output) can be as low as 5V. Keep in mind that all outputs will have the same voltage level. These units just do PWM dimming, so the output voltage is the same as the input.

I don't need to connect this to LED drivers?

Sometimes the power supply is called LED driver. Of course you need to have a power supply with 12 or 24V DC and you should use one that is recommended for LEDs with PWM dimming.

Are there also good DIN mountable solutions? Or are there other solutions you would recommend?

What are you looking for? The price per channel is very low. I would give it a try if I need to dim that many channels and are looking for a cheap dimmer. I would not trust this device to work with 72A (1720W at 24V) despite the fact that the manuals says it works. If you like to mount it on a DIN rail I would use DIN rail mounts - Google with pictures is your friend. You may use a plate between the mounts and the dimmer if the holes of the mount do not fit to the dimmer and you don't want to drill holes into it.

The diameter of the cable should be sufficient for the installation - it depends on the cable length, the Ampere and some other factors. On the Internet you'll find calculators for the power loss in the cable, so you can do your own calculations.

Jan

[Gast]

Ok thx!

The controller I showed has 2 DC inputs. Why is that?
I think I'm going to buy 2 DMX Controllers. 1 for 12V LEDs and 1 for 24V LEDs.
DIN mountable is not really needed. I was just looking for a clean solution. But I think that won't be a problem.