Loxone integration with Vaillant boiler

[Asalways]

Hi all,

Since the beginning of my installation with a loxone partner I didn't had the feeling it was all setup very well and fine tuned. Everything worked, so don't fix it if it ain't broken, right?
Recently I had some spare time and wanted to expand my knowledge about Loxone. By looking to the loxone foundation series I did gather some good information and made some adjustments to my house.
The only thing that was left that I couldn't figure out is the heating installation. We have installed a brand new ecotec exclusive vcw 436 Vaillant with a pump for our radiators upstairs and one for the underfloor-heating downstairs. On both the radiator and underfloor-heating collectors we use the Loxone actuators.
Currently the only connection between loxone and Vaillant is with the VR70 module. If I'm correct this is just a simple on/off heating solution. S2 controls the radiators, S3 controls the underfloor-heating. In the Vaillant module I disabled most of the features like the outside temperature sensor and indoor sensors.
In the config the only thing I have is the following:



as shown in the foundation series you can add some additional blocks to have the full 3 or 4 stages to control the heating. What I don't understand is how you manage to get the wiring (Vaillant, mixer,..) to all these components and how the Vaillant should be configured. Does anyone have some insight in this? Does it actually benefit you? Or what are the recommendations for this? I looked at the technical wiring for the boiler and other components but cannot figure it out.
I raised this question at the loxone installer but he forwarded me to the vaillant installer and vice versa. I assume none of them has experience with this.
Recently I also did found a loxone blog where they mentioned an integration with the eebus but I think it's only for the heat pumps from Vaillant. However I followed the tutorial and I did manage to get it connected. It does tell me it's a vr920 which is not correct but it still show connected both in the vaillant app and in the loxone config. I have no clue if I can use it in any way now.
I hope someone can help me out or give some advice on my next steps!

thanks in advance!

[ty5500]

For me, i completely control my vaillant heating installation on gas using a vr34 module. There is not much advertising on this module and i was not sure if it would work but it works perfectly. This module was created to use the vaillant system in bigger buildings. This module reacts to the analogue 0-10 volt signal from a master building management system (here the miniserver) to determine how much power/heat the vaillant heater needs to provide. The heating block from loxone (dont remember the name) automatically calculates the necessary heating requirements (and thereby the 0-10 voltage) based on the intelligent room controllers of all the different rooms.the intelligent room controllers than indeed control the loxone actuators so the heat is only provided to the rooms that need heat.

[cdrescher]

That sounds pretty interesting with the VR34 module. I was so far as well controlling my vaillant with the on/off via loxone. but I read that this causes too often on/offs which are eventually not good as it cannot control the heat as good.
@ty5500: can you evtl. share your config? From the wiring I assume I just use an analog output 0-10V and connect it to the vr34 which is connected to the vaillant heating installation, right?

[ty5500]

I've added a printscreen of the main elements of my configuration. every room has its own intelligent room controller with a linked temperature sensor. All these intelligent room controllers are assigned to the intelligent temperature controller. The intelligent temperature controller is the main element that communicates with the vaillant heater and which decides how much power the vaillaint heater needs to provide based on the requirements of all the rooms (all the linked intelligent room controllers). If all the rooms need heating and the temperature difference is high, a 10v signal will be provided on output AQI so the heater works on max capacity. If only one room needs little heating a low signal is transmitted. For this to work correctly and comfortably, you also need to enter the sizes in square meters of all the rooms in loxone in the rooms section.On the H output of the intelligent room controller, the actuators are linked which are on my collectors.

The wiring is that indeed the analog 0-10v output to the vr34 module and of course the wiring to the actuators.

[Asalways]

I've added a printscreen of the main elements of my configuration. every room has its own intelligent room controller with a linked temperature sensor. All these intelligent room controllers are assigned to the intelligent temperature controller. The intelligent temperature controller is the main element that communicates with the vaillant heater and which decides how much power the vaillaint heater needs to provide based on the requirements of all the rooms (all the linked intelligent room controllers). If all the rooms need heating and the temperature difference is high, a 10v signal will be provided on output AQI so the heater works on max capacity. If only one room needs little heating a low signal is transmitted. For this to work correctly and comfortably, you also need to enter the sizes in square meters of all the rooms in loxone in the rooms section.On the H output of the intelligent room controller, the actuators are linked which are on my collectors.

The wiring is that indeed the analog 0-10v output to the vr34 module and of course the wiring to the actuators.

Thanks for the info! I did some lookup on the vr34 module and indeed there is not much to find about. I did notice it should be compatible with my gas installation but haven't seen yet how to install it properly. On the miniserver side you mentioned the analog output AQI, since I own a miniserver (not gen1) I assume I will need an additional extension. Is there also an analog input required from the module to the miniserver for reading any parameters?
Do you also control any mixing valves perhaps? Or do you only use 1 heating system (radiators, underfloor-heating) for the whole house?

[ty5500]

Thanks for the info! I did some lookup on the vr34 module and indeed there is not much to find about. I did notice it should be compatible with my gas installation but haven't seen yet how to install it properly. On the miniserver side you mentioned the analog output AQI, since I own a miniserver (not gen1) I assume I will need an additional extension. Is there also an analog input required from the module to the miniserver for reading any parameters?
Do you also control any mixing valves perhaps? Or do you only use 1 heating system (radiators, underfloor-heating) for the whole house?

More information regarding the manual and installation can be found in the online manual (https://www.vaillant.be/telechargements/documents/notice-installation/controls/notice-dinstallation-vr-34-0-10-v-316544.pdf). I don't remember the installation so it definately was very easy and straightforward. I control with this module the gas installation via an analog output on the miniserver (gen 1).

I'm not sure what mixing valves are. I have collectors and on these collectors are actuators from loxone (https://shop.loxone.com/enen/valve-actuator-tree.html) that control the flow to all my radiators individually and that are connected to the loxone three module. They are controlled by the H output in my printscreen above. I don't have any feedback back from my gas installation to loxone (it apparently is possible if i read again about the vr34 but back than i did not do it).

[Gast]

Hi all,

Since the beginning of my installation with a loxone partner I didn't had the feeling it was all setup very well and fine tuned. Everything worked, so don't fix it if it ain't broken, right?
Recently I had some spare time and wanted to expand my knowledge about Loxone. By looking to the loxone foundation series I did gather some good information and made some adjustments to my house.
The only thing that was left that I couldn't figure out is the heating installation. We have installed a brand new ecotec exclusive vcw 436 Vaillant with a pump for our radiators upstairs and one for the underfloor-heating downstairs. On both the radiator and underfloor-heating collectors we use the Loxone actuators.
Currently the only connection between loxone and Vaillant is with the VR70 module. If I'm correct this is just a simple on/off heating solution. S2 controls the radiators, S3 controls the underfloor-heating. In the Vaillant module I disabled most of the features like the outside temperature sensor and indoor sensors.
In the config the only thing I have is the following:



as shown in the foundation series you can add some additional blocks to have the full 3 or 4 stages to control the heating. What I don't understand is how you manage to get the wiring (Vaillant, mixer,..) to all these components and how the Vaillant should be configured. Does anyone have some insight in this? Does it actually benefit you? Or what are the recommendations for this? I looked at the technical wiring for the boiler and other components but cannot figure it out.
I raised this question at the loxone installer but he forwarded me to the vaillant installer and vice versa. I assume none of them has experience with this.
Recently I also did found a loxone blog where they mentioned an integration with the eebus but I think it's only for the heat pumps from Vaillant. However I followed the tutorial and I did manage to get it connected. It does tell me it's a vr920 which is not correct but it still show connected both in the vaillant app and in the loxone config. I have no clue if I can use it in any way now.
I hope someone can help me out or give some advice on my next steps!

thanks in advance!

Hi Asalways,

I have the same setup as you have and was wondering how you ended up configuring your system. Did you install the VR34 module or did you left it the way it was? For what I can find you can't combine the VR34 with the VRC 700, or am I mistaken?

[Asalways]

Hi DUMtec,

I was wondering if you made any progress since your post? With the rising energy costs I committed to invest some time again in this project. I went ahead and bought the AO loxone extension as well the VR 34 module.
I'm still trying to figure out how to wire everything together and what role the VR70 will play and the VRC700 on the boiler itself.
I either need to figure out how to get information like the Sysflow (S5) and temperature from cv2 (S6) to Loxone or directly connect these to loxone somehow. Same goes for the pumps I guess. Putting everything together with the building blocks in the Loxone config is yet another topic.

[ty5500]

Why would you want to use the vrc700 when Loxone can control everything? My loxone knows the inside temperature via temperature sensors, the outside temperature (via internet), knows if im present or not and uses all this to control the temperatures of all the different rooms. This works flawlessly. I have a tablet in the living room for easy control (mainly for the intercom) but the app on the cellphone is enough.

Because there are 2 heating systems in my house. One for the conventional radiators and another for underfloor heating. They cannot operate on the same temperatures so you need different pumps and a 3-way valve to control the different temperatures. Thats where the VR70 comes in

[Asalways]

Hi Asalways,

I have the same setup as you have and was wondering how you ended up configuring your system. Did you install the VR34 module or did you left it the way it was? For what I can find you can't combine the VR34 with the VRC 700, or am I mistaken?

Hey DUMtec,

I did some further research but eventually found out that my mixing valves (wilo yonos para rka) arent capable to connect a 0-10v signal. I guess I could still have some better heat control with the VR34 module as ty5500 described in his reaction. But since I also would need to order an Loxone AO extension for only 1x analog output I thought it wasn't worth it so I left it the way it was (for now).
Regarding your question if it's compatible with the VRC700, I don't think this should be a problem since it only allows the boiler to be managed by a BEMS (Building Energy Management System) as described in the manual. It might however do some functionalities as the VRC700 and have some conflict maybe? I think the Vaillant support can answer this one quickly. Also since my boiler is installed in the attic I had to disable all temperature reading, scheduling and outside weather detection on the VRC.

[Asalways]

Why would you want to use the vrc700 when Loxone can control everything? My loxone knows the inside temperature via temperature sensors, the outside temperature (via internet), knows if im present or not and uses all this to control the temperatures of all the different rooms. This works flawlessly. I have a tablet in the living room for easy control (mainly for the intercom) but the app on the cellphone is enough.

the vrc700 is indeed useless when you use temp sensors, touch switches,.. however, I do think it is still required for the heating curve maybe?
Also, I guess when you use a VR70 for different heating systems a VRC controller is also needed to operate together.

[ty5500]

You need to set up a maximum heating temperature on the display of your vaillant. Loxone calculates the heating curve using all the variables and than adjust the heating curve by adjusting the 0-10 v signal that is transmitted to the Vaillant. I have never investigated how to use this with different 3 way valves as i dont have this situation. However, if you also need a VRC700 the added value of Loxone will be rather limited in my opinion.

[GertSt]

Hi,
For a few months, I am also using the VR34 to control my Vaillant boiler using Loxone, but for some reason My living room never reaches the requested temperature.

It looks like Loxone starts to throttle down the VR34 too early. Then the boiler goes in suspend modus and the requested target temperature is not reached.

I thought that the fuzzy logic would learn from this, but up to now, the behavior did not change... I think the main reason is the boiler going in overheat protection too fast.

What mode did you use to control the VR34? Power or temperature control?

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks a lot!
Gert

[Asalways]

Eventually I didn't use the VR34 module in my boiler. I had a call with a Vaillant engineer that had good knowledge about domotica systems and he also recommended to leave out the VR34 for complexity reasons unless you know 100% what you are doing. As I couldn't counter this argument with someone from Loxone with decent knowledge I decided to leave it out. For now I don't have any regrets and Loxone. The boiler starts and stops in time to reach the required temperatures in all rooms. I really do believe it could be generally more optimized and efficient but since the lack of documentation from both vendors i'm not willing to go through the hassle and argument with other household members during this winter.

[lordcaliente6]

Your approach to using the VR70 module makes sense for basic on/off control, but I understand you want more advanced functionality. Adding extra stages can be a bit tricky, and it involves configuring both the wiring and the Vaillant settings correctly. While I can't offer a detailed solution here, you might want to explore the Rowlen webpage for some tips regarding heating systems and boilers. They often have valuable insights that could point you in the right direction. Don't give up! Sometimes, these tech challenges just need a little extra patience and tinkering.