Problem with lighting scene in 3 rooms (but also in general)

[TomekWaw]

Hallo Leute
I hope some German-speaking Loxone-ninjas will read that post.

I've tried to solve this by myself, but eventually I would need some help.
I wanted to implement a lighting scene for watching movies.
Seems a classic case, but turned out to be a tough task.

My setup and requirements:

a) Switch block enables "Cinema" mode (Operating Mode)



b) Rising edge of that switch gives pulse to "Cinema Scene" (Memory Flag)
c) With that pulse I'd like to set specific moods in three rooms (each room with Lighting Controller V2):

• Living Room: mood 1 (T5/1)
• Kitchen: mood 3 (T5/3)
• Hall: mood 2 (T5/2)

d) I'd like - and this is very important to me - to set those specific moods with EVERY consecutive "Cinema Scene" pulse, no matter if lights are off, on, set in different mood or already set in required mood. Pretty simple need.

e) One additional requirement is to get Kitchen lights a little brighter when I enter Kitchen during Cinema operation mode. Meaning: Mix-in another defined mood to current mood of Kitchen controller on motion detection, during Cinema operating mode.

I've created two solutions already but none works fully:

1).
The easiest and most obvious - Connecting "Cinema Scene" pulse memory flag to:

• T5/1 of Living Room Lighting Controller (example pictured below)
• T5/3 of Kitchen Lighting Controller
• T5/2 of Hall Lighting Controller

At first this seemed to work fine.
I've been also able to successfully implement requirement e) with such setup and it works fine:




The problem is that IF mood in any of those rooms has not been changed since turning Cinema mode on, every consecutive Cinema Scene pulse switches that controller to next mood.
So when I enable Cinema mode, disable it, and enable again after 3 minutes, all lights go sideways (move to next mood on every LCv2)
I've read somewhere here that pulse on T5/X input switches to next mood when issued within 30 seconds. I find this not being true.
The only way to get a fresh start with my Cinema Scene pulse was to change every light to another mood (or turn lights off).


2).
So I decided to try a different approach with "Als" input.
I created kind of Scene Controller out of Radio buttons block for each of three rooms (not visible in UI).
I connected Cinema Scene pulse to specific inputs (I1 - Living, I3 - Kitchen, I2 - Hall).
Than I also had to make a feedback loop between Lighting Controller and my Scene Controller to preserve current lighting state / mood between Miniserver restarts.




Please see attached pictures below for full diagram of LivingRoom, Kitchen and Hall lighting

At first that seemed to work fine.
But then I found out that it fails with motion sensor in Kitchen.
In such setup when I enter kitchen, kitchen light goes off (instead of getting mixed).
Don't know why, but probably that feedback loop is no any good in case of mixing-in scenes.


Am I missing something (in both solutions)?
Is there any way to inform T5/X input to ALWAYS enable mood X and no move forward on the mood list? (sth like long pulse or some magic analog value?)
What's the appropriate / optimal way to accomplish this task? How would you do that?

[TomekWaw]

Ok, I've already found out that feedback loop and whole 2nd solution is no-go zone, as any mixed moods of Lighting Controller V2 produce AQs of value -3.
That has been switching my light off. It would be extremely hard to pass something meaningful to Als out of such AQs so I diched that direction and returned to first solution.

After considering what did not work earlier, I came to a working solution that passes Cinema Scene pulse only when current mood is different than required.
I used constant, math and logic blocks for this check, but the result is still quite neat:

Living Room (Mood 1)


Kitchen (Mood 3)


Hall (Mood 2)


Kitchen (Moods tab)


Kitchen (Automatic tab)




I still wonder, is there any smarter / neater way of doing such multiroom lighting scenes?

[Christian Fenzl]

That's quite complex and hard to follow ;-)

You might try:
An Analogue Memory block connected to Als of the Lightning Controller V2.
On the inputs of the Analogue Memory: The number of the light scene (e.g. from a constant) and the Cinema Mode pulse on Tr.

I don't know how this fits into the current program and requirements, but it possibly makes it more easy.

PS: Haven't you done the two-semester Lightcontroller V2 degree course?

[TomekWaw]

Christian Fenzl, thanks for the idea!
That's true, it would be even a neater solution:



I've tested it, it basically works but also has a flaw.
When Lightcontroler is off or in any single mood mode and you trigger Cinema Scene - it works pretty fine.
But when you mix any moods (either by motion or manually), controlling it by Als failes and might be even inconsistent.
Seems to me that if you are in mixed mood state (AQs=-3):

• Triggering "3" on Als doesn't change Lighting Controller state at all (and this failes my d) requirement)
• Second or third consecutive trigger switches the lights off (this is mystery to me how Als=3 might result in LC getting state 0)

You're right, all this turns out to be quite complex, though it might seem that creating lighting scenes should be pretty easy in any smart home system.
Perhaps it's just me and it might be a punishment for not attending any paid Loxone courses 😁

[cdani]

Hi
I think i have the solution implemented what you need.
have you ever thinked about using Modus Cinema to setup all the light controller?

If i start cinema i start modus Cinema and all the light controllers goes to the specific scene.
if i stand up and go to the kitchen my motion detection start a scene brighter for a small amount of time and if i go back to the TV it shut off the bright light.

Not read the whole text but use operation modus for all light controllers to do somethink like this.

[TomekWaw]

Hi cdani ,
I'm using Cinema operating mode (or modus as you call it) to automatically brighten lights on motion with no problems since the very beginning. You can see it on image #3 in first post.
The problem is how make controller "go to specific scene" when you enable the Cinema operating mode / modus every time in consistent way.
And how to make it simple.

[cdani]

You just need to setup the light controller to the specific scene in the automatic tab and not use mix by action.

[TomekWaw]

The automatic tab seems to be about selecting lighting mood / scene on motion only.
At least in latest public version 10.2.3.26, Lighting Controller V2 and that's what I use.
There is no motion when I enable Cinema mode and might be no motion later at all.

[cdani]

You can send an impuls when starting cinema mode to the motion detection input and do that all several minutes to hold the light on.

[TomekWaw]

😀 That's creative! But I want to hold specific light mood all movie time and then I wouldn't be able to use motion sensor at all

[cdani]

Sorry but now I’m lost. Basically i do not understand what you want.
Can you describe again what do you have installed and what do you need?
as an example i have motion detection in living room and kitchen. When i start TV Modus the lights goes to TV Scene in the living room.
if i go to the kitchen i add two lights in the living room to a brighter modus to see where i need to go.

it would be easy to add also the kitchen to a brighter modus.
do you have also a layout to see where your tv and lights are and probably the motion detection?

[TomekWaw]

cdani, you can just scroll up and read to get a very detailed description.
Why don't you just share screen of your living room diagram?
I wonder how do you achieve "When i start TV Modus the lights goes to TV Scene in the living room".
Have you ever tried to start your TV Modus consecutively several times?

[cdani]

This is my setup.

Basically i start the TV Mode with an input from a Touch or app and "TV Ein" Stwitch goes on which starts TV Mode on the Media Controller
Then i give this information to the Light Controllers to switch to "TV Scene".
When no motion the Light Scene will be shut off after 3600 sec but that will be not happen as i have motion during i look TV.
Then i decide during TV Mode when actually no motion the light controller is on scene "TV Dunkel" and if i detect motion on "BM Küche" or "BM Eingang" to switch this light controller from Scene "TV Schauen Dunkel" to "TV Schauen Hell".

If i deactivate the Switch TV Mode everything is going back to normal.

Years ago i also tried the way with ALS and T5 input for scenes but i was not able to find the solutions as loxono also switch the way to activate the T5 Scene. Years ago you was able to give an impuls to them and it was just on and i think today every impuls gives the next scene which i not understand.

Rgds Dani

[TomekWaw]

cdani, Thanks!

I see you enable TV moods "wenn Alles aus" (only if previously all lights where off). This would be a major problem to me as I usually enable Cinema mode when some lights are already on (just want to set them to specific mood). But I might be missing something here as you didn't include your Lighting Controller blocks.
The other problem for me would be:

When no motion the Light Scene will be shut off after 3600 sec but that will be not happen as i have motion during i look TV.

I have areas where it might be no motion during I watch TV (think of Hall for example).

Years ago i also tried the way with ALS and T5 input for scenes but i was not able to find the solutions as loxono also switch the way to activate the T5 Scene.

That's exactly what I was struggling with. Yep that's right, currently every impuls on T5 sets next mood (if mood has not changed by other inputs).
I've finally solved this by checking if mood needs to change and give pulse to T5 only if required:





This is the cleanest solution I came to so far
FYI Christian Fenzl