Lighting Controller and automatic switch-off behaviour

[jamesb]

I discovered something new about the lighting controller that I don't understand how to work around. It's caused by the motion Mv input keeping the lights on, in conjunction with the MT and TH parameters - i.e. the motion overrun parameters. The function of the Mv input appears to work in two distinct ways which seem to be at odds with each other:

1. Firstly it is used to turn on the lights automatically when there is motion. The DisP input prevents this happening, as can the T and Alb parameters which define the lighting-level threshold. This all works as expected.
2. The second way the Mv input works is to force the lights to stay on, and the overrun parameters (MT and TH) define how long the lights stay on, so whenever there is motion the overrun time is extended. Mv motion inputs in this second scenario are unaffected by DisP and T/Alb . I don't understand the logic behind this.

This is the scenario I am working with:

We have an open-plan kitchen area that has fairly constant activity during the day. In the mornings it is dark, so the lights come on (either automatically or through the wall switch). In order to save energy, we want the automatic lighting to be disabled during daylight hours. So when it's daytime the Mv input to the lighting controller is disabled using the DisP input. A problem occurs for us, because the lights stay on all day whilst there is movement in the kitchen. So even when it's daylight hours (DisP kicks in) and the light level (Alb) is higher than the light threshold (T), the movement in the kitchen causes the overrun timers (MT/TH) to force the lights on.

This doesn't seem very intuitive to me. Does anybody have any insights as to why the miniserver behaves this way? I assume because when it's dark and you turn the lights on, you want them to say on when there is presence in the room. But in my case, it is daylight in my case and I really don't want automatic lighting!



Image above is my attempt to solve this problem by prevent Mv inputs whilst the Disp input is disabled. I've used virtual inputs to help simulate the motion & light switch/levels, so it's not a real example.

How do people solve this problem? Am I missing something obvious? Hopefully this will make sense to somebody!

[Vossi]

In my opinion you can remove the AND with connection between Daylight ours and Motion to the Mv. Only connect motion to Mv and Daylight Hours to DisP.
If Daylight hours is connected to DisP (and on), the Mv input is ignored. But motion is able to switch light off (if motion is no longer detected).
In your config the motion signal can't trigger the Mv when daylight hours is on.

[jamesb]

Hi, thanks for your reply. The thing is, Mv is not ignored when DisP is active for the reasons I set out in my query. Whilst DisP will prevent the lights turning on (if they are currently off), DisP does not prevent the overrun time (MT/TH) from being extended. This means the lights stay on all day even when DisP is active

[Iksi]

Why do you use the DISP?
You have connected the Brightness to Alb. So you can set at which brightness the MV will switch the light on by parameter T. So on the day the brightness is high so it won't switch....

[jamesb]

Of course, DISP and Alb prevent the lights switching ON when the MV sensor is active. But neither DISP/ALB affect MV once the lights are on.

In the morning it is dark, so obviously I want the lights to come on. But once it is daylight, the lights stay on whilst there is continuous movement in the area. In my case, the lights stay on all day which is not great from an energy-saving POV. This is simply the default behaviour of loxone. I was wondering what people's solutions to this and what workarounds are recommended

[Kverb]

Not sure if it's a satisfactory workaround for you, but you could use an edge detector to create a pulse that resets the lighting controller when "Daylight hours" becomes active.

[Jan W.]

I agree with Iksi that it does not make sense to have two different ways to prevent the lights from going on. Both do not affect the light if already turned on as long as there is motion. If the sensor for brightness is affected by the light that is turned on, it may trigger an off immediately, therefore I can understand that Loxone has programmed the block as it is. I have noticed this behaviour in our kitchen, but typically we leave after breakfast, so it was not disturbing me that much to change it.

If there is activity in that area for the whole day as in your case, then you need to add your own logic. I guess that Loxone was thinking more about a "normal" house where everybody is leaving that area and working in an office . In my opinion the lighting function block is similar to the automatic blinds function block: there are so many inputs and parameters that it is difficult to fully understand the logic and at the end some little tweaks are missing .

A pulse e.g. with a monoflop to reset the light as suggested in #6 should work to fix the problem, however daylight hours as a trigger might be too early if this is at sunrise. Brightness may not work either, so you either need to have another sensor for brightness that is not affected by any artificial light. If there is no such sensor you may use the predefined "Daylight 30min".

[MacCookie]

I use a "less than" function block between my Presence and Lighting Controllers. In my Bedroom, the Lighting Controller T is set to 8 lux, so Presence only activates when the light level is less than 50 lux. This means that if the light level is low and the light turns on, and then when it increases the P input is deactivated.

Cheers,
Ewan

[lordcaliente6]

Hey, that sounds like a tricky situation with your lighting controller! The logic behind those motion inputs seems a bit counterintuitive, especially for your scenario. Have you reached out to the manufacturer or checked their support forums? Sometimes they've got insights or workarounds that aren't immediately obvious in the manual.

Also, while it might not directly solve your controller issue, have you considered exploring different lighting options? I recently came across some interesting fixtures on seuslighting.com. While it might not relate to your specific technical question, sometimes exploring new lighting ideas can lead to unexpected solutions.