SD Card issue - OS wont boot - statistics lost

[killeriq]

Hello,

After over 2y of successful operation and statistics collection - Loxone just wont work, soon as ive replaced the card - did fresh format + loaded configuration , all is working again.
Unfortunately all statistics are lost, i assume the reason of this problem is that statistics filled up the 2gb card and loxone OS with some caching has no space left to boot up.

The next working card is 8GB so i will have some enough space.
Question is how do i get the statistics from the old SD Card? is there a way to open the loxfile iso and take the statistics out? I cant do backup via Config app because the Loxone miniserver wont boot up with the old SD Card, even the data are still there.

Thanks

[Christian Fenzl]

The SD File system of Loxone is only 2GB, independent of the size of the card. Wear-Leveling may enhance the lifetime.

Unfortunately, I could not manage to mount the fs under Linux. You may have a backup from the last update in Loxone Config.

[killeriq]

Ah thanks - i was wondering how its possible on fat32 system to have 2GB+ file - btw why are they selling now the 4GB card on their webstore? what for?

The backup in Config - i had 2 backups one from August and other from March - the one from March i was able to restore, but the newer one from August - getting error by copying files, also on other computer (did those backups twice successful). Where are they stored - i could copy the stats files from the backup and copy it via FTP to loxone

thx

[Christian Fenzl]

%USERPROFILE%\MY Documents\Loxone\Loxone Config\

[killeriq]

So i did complain to the loxone support and here is what they replied:

4GB card uses only 2GB, the rest 2GB are empty - but they are selling it as more space for stats and so on - so they are lying to customer!
Also they mention that miniserver is not primarily meant to save statistics - so if your card get full you just lose your data - we are sorry.

About backup they suggested to use the Logger module - so basically i would need to add logger to the each temp/hum/etc module to send stats also there and then it can create some *.log file which can be send somewhere, but this file wont be readable in the app anyway - so wth is for such backup?!

They suggest me to create backup via Loxone Config more often - instead of come up with SET and FORGET solution to upload it (by scheduler) to some cloud storage.

This is a real Intelligent house approach!
I would like to see how many end users are doing their backup (probably many of them dont even know about loxone config) - if they buy it as some solution from 3rd party company which set all for them.

[Christian Fenzl]

You should try LoxBerry.
A Miniserver backup solution is already available, and external statistics are in the cue.

Loxone may lie or not, but a bigger SD card has advantages because of wear-levelling.

And, Loxone is right, Miniserver is primarily not a statistics tool.

[killeriq]

loxberry - aditional piece of HW to do job of Miniserver - if it would have that function
Its like getting a phone with additional storage of 16gb - but u can use only 8gb and they will also tell you phone is primary for calling not storing any data - do you think this approach would work?

[Jan W.]

I guess the 2GB SD cards are not produced anymore, so Loxone has to sell 4GB cards. The 2GB limitation comes from FAT16 file system. I'm not sure if there are limitations in the controller for the SD card that is used in the miniserver which prevents an easy upgrade to larger SD(HC) cards (up to 16GB ?) or a different filesystem like FAT32, but this is likely the case.

It's the same issue with all cameras or phones that are using SD cards - existing (older) devices will most likely not support newer SD standards like SDXC (up to 2TB ?) or the next standard that is under development. Using a similar example as yours: should I complain with Apple that my older iPhone only had 8GB of storage? I know that this comparison is not the same as yours and that iPhones don't have SD cards, but it's the same issue - storage is limited and can't be extended to the amount that I like to have. If I would ask Apple they would probably respond that their latest model has more storage.

Would it be worth to buy a new "next generation" miniserver that supports SDHC or SDXC cards because of the hardware limitations in current hardware? I would rather stay with the MS that I have and the limitation of 2GB storage. I fully agree with Christian that the miniserver and SD cards were not designed to collect and analyze huge amounts of statistics data. SD cards are not reliable if data is written a lot and the cards are used for years. For the same reasons my photos and music are stored on a safe place.

I am wondering why Loxone is not offering some cloud service to address this problem. Maybe they are working on something similar? Maybe not and they are busy with other stuff like tree or don't see a market for this - I don't know. You may export statistics to Loxone config, but once they are deleted from the ms, you can't use their app to view them. At least there are ways to export them (via email, ftp), but you only get the raw data and are on your own to use the data.

So far I haven't used the LoxBerry, but I like the approach. Instead of complaining, waiting for missing features or pay fees for cloud based solutions (if available), you can add features you like to have with a cheap raspberry. The project just has started and it may not be perfect at this time, but I really like the idea that additional features can be added as plugins to the LoxBerry and you don't have to deal with Linux command line by yourself. It may not be a solution for everybody and some users may prefer to pay for an integrated cloud based solution - if it would be available in the future.

[killeriq]

Jan W: i would agree with the stament you are saying if loxone wouldnt sell 4GB card with description - more data for statistics and no need to care for years. If someone doesnt not see into this problem - he would say (same as me) 2gb wasnt enough so i place 4gb to have more space - end result is that i have still just 2GB

Yeah the solution for cloud would be great - simple module copy data from point A to point B an hour of scripting/programming job top.
I wonder how the end users who has just an app on mobile/web - no skills in Loxono Config would do their backup.

This makes me mad - an "intelligent house" solution - with so basic non automated backup solution. I would care at all if it wouldnt happend to me - but it did and i have an real example how loxone is caring about user data.

[svethi]

I agree with you in some points and the 2GB limitation is ever a point for discussions, but dont forgot the miniserver is simply an computer with a OS an software an every user knows that it is necessary to take backups periodically.

[norvik]

does someone know how to make that DS120j make a backup or take loxone miniserver data. and save it .
is it even possible to that